Originally by: Pallidum Treponema

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Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 13/11/2009 10:27:27
Well thoughtout post
Pandora's box

This is a clear case of Pandora's Box. Once you open the box, it cannot be closed. You cannot put the genie back into the bottle. With the huge proliferation that this will result in, you can never change motherships back to what they used to be.

In effect, you may end up killing eve.

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Originally by: Impolite Andevil

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First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.

Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!

The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.

If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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Originally by: fairimear

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Originally by: Lord Power

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stuff

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stuff

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This game, motherships, and the future of both do not just belong to those who already own/pilot these ships.

I agree that there is a need for a total rebalance of the ships, we should allow them to dock, and take away their exclusive status.

You want a big epeen to wave around, go build a Titan. Whatever you do stop talking like you, and only you, have the right to proclaim what "we" want because you already pilot one of these ships.

Its past time to nerf the ships, and bring them in line with other capitals. Though I agree with what others are saying. 30 minute dock and undock counters would be a good start.


-Karlemgne

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Originally by: Vire Amarr

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Now we have

Titan rocks and can kill nearly everything

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Originally by: Aequitas Veritas

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Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 11:58:19
How about:
- Keep the EHP buff
- Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships)
- Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?)
- Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad
- If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something

and

- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.

Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.

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Originally by: King Dave

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I thought the hel gets some kind of bonus to fighter bombers which at level 5 makes them do more damage than even a nyx. I forgot what it was but there were some graphs somewhere and the hel seemed to dominate.

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